Honest as a Mother
Join Amanda as she is sitting down with other moms and having the tough conversations surrounding motherhood. Amanda is a full time working mom who's passionate about discussing the "taboo" topics of motherhood. Join Amanda as she gets honest as a mother on her own feelings about what motherhood is really like.
Honest as a Mother
Navigating the Complexities of Motherhood: Mental Health, Technology, and Marital Challenges with Annie Lawton
Amanda is joined by Annie Lawton who is a mother, a story teller, an author and one bad ass business owner who is here to help us see that motherhood IS chaotic and that is okay. We are all a mess and we are just all trying to do our best everyday and this conversation will normalize that.
Included in this episode:
- We are in a new era of parenting, the real question everyone wants to know - Is is easier?!
- What has PPD and mental illness taught both Amanda and Annie.
- Grief and Guilt. How do they show up now in this stage of parenting?
- Neurodivergency and BIG feelings in both of these houses, how are we dealing?
- Marital struggles - can we all agree that being married is hard af? Annie and Amanda are getting real about marriage and the white picket fence.
Follow Amanda on IG: @amanda.gurman
Follow Annie on IG: @annielawton_
Hey guys, welcome back to another episode, the first official episode of the relaunch of the Honest as a Mother podcast. This episode I have recorded batch, recorded quite a few episodes in the last month or so and this episode really stood out to me and I feel like has a little dash of everything for you guys. To really kick this off, I have Annie Lawton back on the podcast with me this week. You may remember, annie was a previous guest, probably a year or so now, maybe even two years oh gosh, probably two years ago where she came on the podcast and talked a lot about her incredible book Welcome to the Jungle, which you may or may not have read already. So Annie is a local author and her book is full of stories that she has written throughout her life and kind of they all pertain to her becoming a mother and it is funny, very relatable, just a really wonderful book. So if you haven't checked it out, please, for the love of god, go get a copy. Because number one, supporting a local author, is wonderful, but number two, truly, annie's writing is so incredible and she's so relatable and so funny, so she's actually one of the first people. Annie. I'm not trying to get like too mushy here, but truly she is one of the first people. When I met her, she took my feelings out of my head and put them on paper inside her book and when I met her, just her kind of explaining her experience in motherhood, her experience with mental illness, overall. She spoke so deeply to me because what she was experiencing was so similar to what I was experiencing, but I was never able to put it into words until I met Annie, so I knew I needed to have her back on the podcast. So we're kind of diving all over the place. But we are talking about our stage of parenting now and why are we still struggling? And so I laugh because I feel like I get this question a lot of like. Is being a mom easier now that your kids are older? And I used to fucking hate, like hated, when people would tell me it doesn't get easier, it just gets different. Well, guys, it doesn't get easier, it just gets different. Here I am saying those words that I've hated for so long, but they're true, and so I don't feel like parenting is any easier now, it's just very, very different. My hard now looks very different from my hard five years ago. So Annie and I are diving into that.
Speaker 1:We talk a lot about what mental illness and postpartum depression has taught us and we really get quite vulnerable here, especially Annie. She gets really vulnerable about her grief and her guilt following postpartum depression. We're talking about how we feel like we were robbed right, and so many of us experienced that, where we're like I wish I could go back and now, being a parent of a six and an eight-year. Annie has children similar in age. She has a third child who is younger, but we are both experiencing this grief kind of come up in different ways, and so I think an interesting conversation about this is really like we think we've gotten through the postpartum, but the reality is it's still showing up six, eight years later, and so we're kind of talking a lot about that.
Speaker 1:We're talking about the big feelings in our household. Annie and I both also relate from a neurodivergent point of view, where ourselves, our children, we suspect or we know and it's just incredibly challenging. I feel like my house is full of people with extremely big feelings and I think every person in my house is a highly sensitive person, and some days it's just so much, and so Annie is sharing with me how her house is very, very similar. We're also talking about what it's really like to raise older kids in this world of social media and phones and video games and online video games and talking with their friends online and kids Facebook messenger. And you know, we both have a child who is eight, and so this is like real shit. That's coming at us really fast and it feels like we don't know if we're making the right decision or not.
Speaker 1:And then we also are talking about the reality of what mental health struggles and being in survival mode can do to your marriage, and I love this part of the conversation because I do feel like this part of the conversation is not spoken enough about. I feel like it's very much like the postpartum period, I feel like. But now a lot of people are talking about how hard the postpartum period is, but I don't feel like a lot of people are talking about what that postpartum period does to your marriage and how moving forward, being in survival mode for so many years, does to your marriage. I don't think people are talking enough about the realities of what it's like to be married with little kids and really choose each other and choose every single day your marriage, your relationship and all of those challenges that come in between. And Annie and I are talking about it.
Speaker 1:Like I said, this episode kind of jumps all over the place, but it is the realest episode I have ever done and I'm so grateful, annie, that you came back on the podcast and I just I love you, I love your stories, I love your realness, like. Thank you so much for coming on. And so, without further ado, welcome back Annie Lawton to the Honest as a Mother podcast. Hi, annie, I'm so excited to have you back on the podcast. Welcome, welcome back, thank you. Thank you, I'm so glad you're here.
Speaker 1:You're just like someone who, you're just my people, you know. And even even today, when you were like I need like the seven minutes I need to shower, like every time you do something like this, it's just so relatable, I get it, I feel seen and heard, and so I appreciate when you do post. Also, I love the fact that you are also like me and you make me feel better because I don't post all the time. Yeah, like I just don't have the capacity to do it, yeah. And then I'm like but I want to do all of these things, but then like posting and reels and everything is like on the very bottom of my list. So I appreciate that you also do that, because you make me feel better, like I don't have to do it. Do you ever feel like that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it's funny because I work as a strategic marketing consultant. I know what I have to be doing in order to like hang out with the algorithm and, you know, be popular there. I don't want like I would love if people stumbled upon me and stuck around, but like I don't have the time or energy or like I just I can't keep up with it. Yeah, and I do it for my clients all day and like it. Just I want it to be authentic and it's. It's funny, Like I'm already jumping into things. I'm sorry but I love it.
Speaker 2:I uh I'm going through this like huge transition where my, my baby, my last baby, just went off to JK this week and I'm starting to think, okay, I can really go from freelancing, as you know copywriter, marketing consultant, whatever to like running this as more of a business, like working more full-time hours. So I hired a business coach to kind of help me figure out what that was going to look like and one of their things was is like that you go to my Instagram page and there's bunnies and there are dogs and there are kids and there's work stuff and there is like me holding snakes and just like all, and she's like what do you do? And I was like but this is who I am right, so I don't know. I think you just have to show up authentic and the people will come that's what I always feel like too.
Speaker 1:I'm always always like I need to do this, I need to do that, but then that doesn't feel like me. So I think that's why we feel that pull to like not Exactly, exactly. So I'm really excited that you touched on like something I wanted to talk to you about, because I feel like and I don't know about you, but I always feel like I am being like pigeonholed in this, like postpartum Amanda, who struggled so bad with her mental health, and I always get like stuck in this like era. But we're in this new era of parenting, still struggling with mental health at times like that. That part has not changed. Just we've lost the postpartum area, can we still?
Speaker 2:well, actually fact. I heard that postpartum actually is up until your child is seven years old, so technically my youngest is four. I have three years left to you know. Claim this postpartum stuff, but in all honesty, postpartum depression definitely highlighted the fact that I was neglecting my other mental health issues for a long time. So there's.
Speaker 1:that Do you ever feel like and this is a side note but I've had this kind of like aha feeling over the last couple of years where I don't feel like aha feeling over the last couple of years, where I don't feel like I used to say I felt like I became a mom and I became so lost, and then now kind of working because I feel the same as you. Like these things were there before postpartum, just kind of magnified them, but I actually feel like my children saved me, even though I became mentally ill and struggled immensely. I feel like if I didn't have that, I would not be this person I am now yeah, so, oh god, shameless plug.
Speaker 2:I hate to do.
Speaker 1:That's what my book is actually yes, you're right, I've read your book.
Speaker 2:Yes, fantastic thank you and I.
Speaker 2:A big thing there is that, you know, as young girls and as young women, we are built up to not like, we're, not we're.
Speaker 2:We're always told we're not good enough, right, like, and we want to be more popular and we want to pursue certain careers, because maybe that's what will make our families happy. And like so, as we go through life, as we're taking out a piece of us and then we shove a piece of somebody into that space and um, then all while being told, by the way, that, like, becoming a mom is the ultimate goal like so we're taking pieces out, working towards becoming a mom, and then we become a mom and we're piss, a piss, we're a piss of swiss cheese, we are a piece of swiss cheese, and what I think is that you bring these sweet little babies into the world and they are so pure and so innocent and so authentic in their own way, and you don't want them to change, you want them to just be them. I'm going to start getting emotional here. And it just shines a slight through all of your holes and you're like, oh crap, like I'm, I've given up so many pieces of who I am to try and fit society's expectations of me. And now I have to build myself back together while, like with mastitis and a ripped vajayjay, like it doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1:It really doesn't. And like when you wrote about that in your book I'm so grateful that you did, because I just feel like there's so many women who don't see it that way and as soon as I started to see it that way, and as soon as I started to see it that way, and then I just feel like cycle breaking and everything else is kind of wrapped up in there. But do you feel, I'm curious, do you feel like this is harder? Like I feel like now that I've opened my eyes or woken up, or whatever the frick we want to call it, I feel like everybody looks at me now like I have five heads. Like you know, I left my job because I was super unhappy, but I feel like my kids started all of this, like they started to let me see who I really am and what do I really want, and ask the questions of like who decided I wanted to go into this career?
Speaker 1:Oh, that wasn't me. Yeah, that was like society told me I would have a great life because I'd have benefits and a pension and good pay, but I never see my children, who I want to be with. And like, did you? Are you finding that too? Like I'm finding a lot of like social norms are kind of like looking at me like well, what the fuck are you doing?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean yes and no.
Speaker 2:I think, on one hand, the pandemic opened up this whole world of flying by the seat of your pants a little bit and doing what feels right for you and your family. On the other side, I think there's still a bit of a generational gap when it comes to like what stability looks like from a financial perspective and you know, having the house and having the job and having the pension and the savings and all of that stuff. But for me it's like you know what my house and my job and none of that matters if my kids are never going to be able to afford to go through post-secondary school and be able to purchase a house in the long run not make them feel like they need to fulfill this expectation and be more flexible with the options that they have down the road. So I think our generation is getting a little bit more flexible in what that looks like, but I think there's still this idea that like there needs to be a bit more stability and less um, what does dave, my husband, what does he say?
Speaker 1:that I am spontaneity but the spontaneity is so I don't know it's better and like I just feel like me making less money but being with my children, like I get to go pick my kids up every day from school.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And we go to the park after school and then I come home and we have dinner together, like I get to take them to school every day and without the whole, like I'm sure your kids have the same thing. Like well, you just said you had one that just started kindergarten. But like one of my children really struggles to go to school and last year it was like okay, but I need you to like shut up, go to school. Because, like I really got to go, I got to be at my shift, I got to be at my desk, I got to be there on time, no-transcript doing anything for him. It was more just like please, for the love of god, please stop crying, because I need you to go to school oh, yeah, yeah, and I think that, gosh, there's so many things to say here.
Speaker 2:I think on one hand, we need to dig into like the privilege of being able to reduce hours and be there for our kids there's there's a mix of privilege and then there's like necessity. Yeah, I actually went back to corporate. I tried to go back to corporate last year. Most people in my in my circle don't know that Um and I ended up. I was, I was recruited.
Speaker 2:I was completely transparent with the fact that I have a child who has school resistance. He has a very difficult time going to school. He has run away from the school Like it takes an hour to transition and in the morning. So I was very clear that I freelanced to support that being able to be there. They still hired me and within two months I was fired for being late twice to team meetings and that followed with so much resentment towards my husband.
Speaker 2:Um, it's not even his fault, but I was like you make more money than I do, so your job is the priority and I have to keep like giving up bits of my wants and desires because we have a child that that needs us to be there and the world. It just isn't accommodating me and there's arguments to be made that the world doesn't have to accommodate me, and that's fine. But then I'm put in a position where I have to create a world that accommodates me for myself, and I think that's what you and I are doing when it comes to making accommodations for our mental health. Like do we want to be working full-time? Like there, there's a good chance. If things were easier and the circumstances were different, maybe we would want to work full-time, can we? It's not realistic.
Speaker 1:I think that's something too like. That has become more apparent as my children are getting older, because I think there's also this thought of like I've had so many parents ask me is it easier? And I would say actually no, I think it's. So I would say two things. I feel like the physical demands of my children are much less. I sleep a lot more than I used to. Almost every night someone doesn't bug me, that's not true. Once a week, twice a week, somebody bugs me in the night.
Speaker 2:I'm so happy for you.
Speaker 1:Where's the wood I need the fucking wood Give me the wood.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but like so. So there's that. Um, I don't need to feed anybody. I still can have to cook for them, but I can give them a plate. They go to the bathroom on their own. I can ask them to get dressed and brush their teeth. Do they do that? Yeah, sense, yes, but there is something to be said about that. Bigger kids, bigger problems, like when we've got friendship problems and we've got school resistance and we have anxiety, and you know, one of my children has had panic attacks like it's. It's like all of a sudden, they're real human beings does that make sense?
Speaker 2:yeah, and I have a question for you because I feel like you might be one of the few people I know that can maybe understand this.
Speaker 2:I've actually been going to therapy for the last two years like intensive therapy to deal with PTSD, the guilt and all of that stuff from like dealing with the postpartum depression in the early days.
Speaker 2:I look back at pictures and I see that I was there for them and I was showing up, but the experience I had I selfishly and like I'm, I'm carrying so much grief with me and so much guilt and I look at my kids and I look at where they struggle and I blame myself and I look at how awesome they are and how freaking sweet their little toes were back in the day and I want to go back. So bad, like so bad, and I never could have imagined wanting to go back to that place when I was in it. But my husband he had a vasectomy after our daughter was born four years ago. I've literally and this feels so selfish because I am so blessed to have my three children I am grieving so hard. I want a fourth baby. So bad, not actually, not actually. But I've been dealing with so much grief and having to go through so much therapy to navigate all of the messy feelings that have come with parenting, after that like being a new mom.
Speaker 1:After that experience Totally, I completely resonate and I have experienced the same thing and I think in the last year since I've kind of really realized a lot of things about myself and same I have been in therapy for quite some time now and she's been really supportive to this, but like I feel like this whole year all I've experienced is grief, like I'm grieving that person that went through postpartum and I do experience a lot more now that all of those things have come up of the yeah, the guilt. And the other night I lost my mind on Scarlett. Honestly, the week before school she was such a dick. Also, we need to normalize the fact that your kids are dicks, it's fine, they just, they just are sometimes and like she was just anxious about school, but you know, I'm doing everything in my power and nothing was working and she was just getting mean and so I lost my cool and that whole night.
Speaker 1:I'm a horrible mother. I'm a terrible mother and it's like those things come back. And so I totally get what you're saying, because I feel like there is like a PTSD component where you're like, oh my God, I've totally screwed this up and oh my God, I remember when she was a baby and so she was the one I struggled with and I carry a lot of guilt with that too. Sometimes, when we don't connect right away, I'm like, oh my God, is this because I didn't love her as much at the beginning, as much as I loved Connor? Like, have I totally fucked all of this up? Yeah, and I know that I haven't. I know, do you understand when I feel like? I know that I logically I have not, but I feel like emotionally and like deep within my subconscious no, I don't actually know that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yep, yep.
Speaker 2:No, because I think we are always going to doubt ourselves always, always always, and we know what's realistic and we know what we would tell other people in our shoes.
Speaker 2:But that doesn't change that there's this like heavy emotional burden that you carry because those are your babies, you know. And one thing I will say I came across this post on Reddit the other day and it was like older adults of you know, kids who have good relationships with your parents. Why is that? And literally all of the top comments were my parents are human, my parents made mistakes. My parents owned up and apologized when they had to apologize and had conversations with us and like, made it just transparent and didn't like so I really like I struggle because I don't want my kids to deal with or know about adult problems. But, on, on the other hand, they've seen me cry, they've seen me go through loss of loved ones and deal with grief and all of that stuff, and I try to talk about it rather than just like cry about it by myself in my room at night, you know.
Speaker 1:I think it's not like it's healthy for them to know that we have feelings. And I did the same thing. Like I apologized to Scarlett and when I was apologizing I started to cry and she was like why are you crying? And I was just like I just you know mommy feels bad that she yelled at you, but like I'm here to tell you that I'm sorry and to you know next time. You know the whole thing, but I think it's good because they can see that like okay, my mom's a human being and she has real feelings.
Speaker 1:And my kids are no stranger to feelings. And I think sometimes I do you ever feel like your kids? Or like maybe not you, but some people feel like their kids are a problem because they have so many feelings, and I definitely used to think that was a problem before. That I understood, but now that, like I see when my kids cry or have a meltdown or whatever, what they're showing me is they're like comfortable to do this in front of me and they'll talk to me about what's actually going on, as opposed to just crying and being a jerk and then not telling me.
Speaker 2:Oh for sure, and I think you and I can both agree the number of times people say your kids feel safe with you and you're like oh good, like great, they feel safe to like throw it down, call me names, you know, do all that stuff, awesome. But really I know lots of people that would never have the types of reactions and feelings that my kids do with me, with their own parents, and as hard as it is on us, there is some safety there for them and I hope that translates into their teen years, because I can't even begin to tell you how scared I am for when they become teenagers if they still have the same attitude and personalities that they have now. There's one kid in particular that, like I, am in trouble.
Speaker 1:I think about it on the regular. Oh yeah, I am. I actually was in the pediatrician's office, so Scarlett is sick right now and she we had to get she has pneumonia. She's totally fine, everything's right. But like mom gut, my mom gut was like something is different or I need to call the doctor.
Speaker 1:My husband thought I was a psychopath they always do they never trust us, no, but the doctor said to me oh no, when a mom comes in here and says I have a feeling, I'm like, okay, send them for whatever test the mom wants yeah, yeah, amazing but so when I was in there she was like flipping her hair back and like doing her thing, like she's like full of sass, and he just said to me good luck, oh, like 10 years.
Speaker 1:I said you can't say that to me, you're a doctor you can't say that to me, and he was like no, I can and I'm just telling you right now good luck, she's gonna have boys lined up out the door. The attitude is already there and it totally is.
Speaker 2:However, I am kind of proud of the attitude because I have a daughter that you cannot fuck with yeah, yeah, honestly, it's, it's, she's, she's strong and she knows it and she's like letting that radiate through her and that's awesome. I love it.
Speaker 1:I love it because, as the people pleaser that I am that. I am like in therapy for years and years and years because of yep, I love it. I love it like she's gonna take over the goddamn world and I'm not gonna be any. I'm gonna be so proud. Yeah, no. Well, my daughter told you to fuck off.
Speaker 2:Well, you probably deserved it at some point yeah, I think I wrote about this one time. My son went to school. He had a supply teacher. He was, he has an IEP. He was, you know, struggling to sit and was fidgeting and talking and all this stuff and the supply teacher goes to him.
Speaker 2:What would your mom think if she knew that you were like, acting out this way? And I will say my son has like the biggest heart, like he. I know a lot of parents, well, I don't know. I know when my parent, when my kids are being little shits, yeah, but I also know when they're trying really hard and in that moment I know he did not deserve that type of feedback and he turned to the teacher and he goes. I know my mommy would be really proud of me because I tried and I like the fact that that stuck with him. Like you never know what's gonna stick. And then I even find too, when you're having a hard time, the way your kids react to you is such a reflection of the type of love that you give them. And in some of my hardest moments it's my kids that remind me that I'm actually doing a good job because of the way that they're like you're no mommy, you're great, I love you. Like it's just yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, my daughter will generally interrupt me, especially if she, like she does like the bedtime, like can I tell you one more thing? Can I have a drink? Can I have another story? Can I have a whatever? Whatever, it is right. And so, like the fourth or fifth time, like my feet like are getting heavier, and I guess she can tell because she'll go okay, mom, can I tell you something? First, Do you need to rainbow breathe? Oh my gosh, what's the rainbow breath? Okay, you go beautiful yep. Or five finger breathe, mom, do you need, do you need to mean to count the five finger breathing for you? And then I kind of want to hit her a little bit, yeah, no, when they pull that like reverse psychology stuff.
Speaker 2:The other day one of my husband was having a tough go and one of my kids goes Daddy's just a flower that hasn't blossomed yet, and I was like what does that even mean?
Speaker 2:But also he kind of is and I tell them all the time I'm like look like mommy and daddy, while we may be in our mid thirties, we are still growing up and learning every single day, just like you are. And like, just like today is a new day for you, today's a new day for us, and we might come across stuff that like we haven't learned before and we're going to learn it together, and we might not be perfect at it the first time, but like we haven't learned before and we're going to learn it together, and we might not be perfect at it the first time, but like this is just the way that it goes. I'll be learning forever and hopefully by the end of my life. I've made a good impression, but like we won't know until we get there.
Speaker 1:I know, and I think that's like, I was having this conversation yesterday at the park with one of the moms and I think that what you're saying is like we just the not knowing part is the hardest part in parenting, right, like she was kind of concerned about like some personality traits of her child now that, like our youngest are in grade one and making friends and keeping friends and are they going to pick the right friends. And because that right and I was like we have officially lost all control, like and I think that's where I would argue that now is actually harder than the newborn. Even though I hated the newborn, even though I hate not sleeping, all of that was incredibly hard. I'm not downplaying that, I kind of want to go back to it oh, 100% like.
Speaker 2:My oldest is in grade three this year, but last year in grade two, one of the boys that he liked to hang around with had an iPhone and kept in trying to add me to snapchat and kept asking my kid to get on snapchat. And I was like bud, like you're not getting snapchat and it's so hard to lay down the law. And my other one, my middle, who's in grade one, is playing fortnite. And all of a sudden I went down the other day and I was like who are these people that you're playing with? And he's like they're my friends. And I was like from where? Well, mommy, from the internet, they're my friends from the with. And he's like they're my friends.
Speaker 2:And I was like from where? Well, mommy, from the internet, they're my friends from the internet. And I was like, oh, my goodness gracious, because I know, when I was in grade six, seven, eight, I was ASS ASLing. What did we do? Age sex location. Yeah, age sex location. I was playing Pictionary on in those AOL instant messaging chat rooms playing with goodness knows who, but it's so much scarier now. So I had to like go through his list and I was like who is this, who is this and I feel like they're already outsmarting me at six and eight, like I can't even keep on top of it I don don't disagree with you.
Speaker 1:I have a six and an eight year old too, and my eight year old, specifically he is like the same plays Fortnite. We there is a uh, I'll find out, there is a way that you can do it. So Connor can only play Fortnite with people that he knows, and my husband has it. So you can shut off everything, so Connor can't hear anybody else except for whoever he's playing with.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, so like him and his little friends do facebook messenger anyway, like they'll call face. Yes, they facetime each other or whatever on kids messenger. But even that that kills me, like my, because it's connected to my phone. My phone doesn't stop fucking ringing after three o'clock and I'm just like when did your friends become so important?
Speaker 2:yeah, I I got. I got a screenshot from a friend of mine the other day of pictures that like I guess my four-year-old and my eight-year-old had been sending them, wearing like putting on all the filters of, like them with glasses and floating through space and like just bombarded everybody on their list. And my friend was like I just saw this and I'm dying and I was like, oh my god, like it's. It scares me because that's the world we're raising kids in and I want them to be safe and I want them to have access to their friends. But then I read a recent study that said kids are the most depressed and isolated they've been ever. Like 68% of kids youth in high school are dealing with depression and that number like doubled in the last. I don't know the exact, I think it was like 10 or 15 years or something like. That's horrifying. Why are so many kids depressed?
Speaker 1:I know I was reading that too. There's that book, the Anxious Generation. Yeah, he wrote a book on it. I haven't read it yet, honestly, because I'm too afraid. Yep, because that adds to the pressure of parenting. Because I don't know what the right answer is. I didn't give Connor Fortnite. Quite frankly, like if I'm being completely honest here, guys, I didn't know what the hell Fortnite was. I just thought it was like the devil, because everybody talks about it, like if you let your child play, whatever, they're going to be the worst kids in life, right. So I was like no, you can never play that. I don't want you playing that. You're too little, you're too little. But then he was going to friend's house, playing it at friend's houses, yeah. So I'm like okay, um, so what do we do? Anyways, I figured out what fortnight was.
Speaker 2:It's really not all that terrible but the skins and the I don't even know. Every every month a new something or other comes out. I don't know what it's called, but my, like my husband's, convinced that V bucks is like literally setting them up for like issues with money management and like it's crazy because they're so expensive.
Speaker 1:Connor got like I don't know $60 in V bucks for his birthday and I was like 60 is a lot of money he was. He blew through it in like three minutes. Oh it's crazy. Yeah, no. So I agree with dave. We need dave on the podcast. Oh my god, we do need dave on the podcast.
Speaker 2:He has time these days.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're gonna bring him on. We need dave, the finance guy, talking about the vbucks oh my god.
Speaker 1:But the man, yeah, the man can do it all. But yeah, I know I don't disagree with you. It's just like there's this intense pressure of like what do I do? How do I do it? Is this the right thing to do? And then, like the phone, the phone was a huge one, like, yeah, we connor just recently, like very recently, so he's always had, like he's very attached to me, yeah, and his little friend lives like half a block away, like I can almost see their house from my house yeah and he wanted to go over there and his mom has always said like bring him over and drop him off or whatever, but he never wants to be without me, yeah.
Speaker 1:So quite recently he wants to go walk to their house and then the park is like right beside their house, which is like two minutes from my house, and my husband was like well, here's our opportunity, like he's trustworthy, but like you want him to go, he's asking to go. Yeah, but then I was like this is why people get their kids phones.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we used to go to the park by ourselves all the time all the time.
Speaker 1:When I was seven, I went to the park all the time by myself, all the time so have we?
Speaker 2:have, as parents, been made to believe that the world is like it's a more dangerous place that we're raising kids in? Or are we just more anxious because we're used to having like instant response and access to everybody? Like is it our problem or is it something that they want? And I think it's us? But I don't trust my kids going to the park without being able to access them. Like I constantly see on Facebook pages, people are putting air tags on their kids and like I just don't. Is it us? Like are we doing that? What? Where is this coming from?
Speaker 1:I don't think. I think it's like a little bit of both. Yes, I think we're part of the problem, but also the world that we live in is very different from the world that we grew up in. So let me tell you a hack. Chris and I found a hack, but it's not a cheap hack, but a hack. So we were sending him with a walkie talkie because it's close enough to my house. So that was great. It worked out really, really well. But then chris had said to me like this is only gonna, as he gets bigger, he's gonna want to go further right or to this kid's house over here that maybe the walkie-talkie doesn't reach. Apple makes kids watches, yes, and he can, so I'm like showing you my watch, but he can phone me from his watch if he needed me, and it has a walkie talkie in it.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay. So, he can phone, he can send a text. I think it was like 10 bucks a month to have on my plan extra and it's only to the parents, only to the parents, okay, and there's no social media. So Connor could technically have a phone, yeah, to be able to reach me, but no social media and without an actual phone Interesting.
Speaker 2:We're an Android family. Whatever, I'm sure Android's coming up with one. We'll see if that works, but that's, yeah, I'm starting to like we're getting into that soon.
Speaker 1:I know it's all coming Right and it's like Annie, when I tell you this started like so hard in the last month and my son just turned eight. I'm just like it's that. My husband was like this like we're here, we have arrived, so we need to start having conversations, like realistic conversations, but we don't have a freaking clue. We don't have a clue, Whereas, like when they were newborns, do you let them put this in their mouth? No, because they'll choke and die, Like that was. You know, like it felt more yes and no.
Speaker 1:Like not everything, but this feels like I don't actually know what the right answer is, and I don't feel like it is the right answer every day, I know, and it's hard, like in our situation.
Speaker 2:our boys are just under 17 months apart, so, like for their entire lives, one gets the other, one gets, like that's just how it's been right. They are tied to the hip and I don't see how, when my son is like in grade eight, how his six-year-old or his brother who happened to slip into like 2018 by a few days, is two school years apart, isn't going to understand why he's not having the same access, because they do everything together, so that's something. That's hard because then you see these younger kids and it's funny anytime my son becomes friends with somebody at school and he tells me about them, depending on their range of freedom and the way that they the things that they talk about.
Speaker 2:I'm like, do they have older brothers or sisters and usually they do because the last one is just like 100%, yeah, well when they're making a real thing but when they're making friends with my, it's like you're still trying to keep them firmly planted. When there's, like the older sibling of the friend who's maybe in like high school or grade eight kind of trickling in, and that's hard too.
Speaker 1:It is hard. When he was a lot younger I noticed quite a bit of his friends had way more freedom than he did, or the Fortnite thing was a big one. But then he was like, oh, their brother, their sister. And then, as I kind of got to know everybody, I was like, oh, they all have older siblings, so that's a thing, it's just so if anybody's listening and you guys are thinking like, will it get easier, well, let's not scare I don't think I will say I think I'm so much busier than I was, but I think I I'm equally as tired, but I've adjusted to being tired all the time you know what I mean like I think you just like this.
Speaker 2:is it Like this?
Speaker 1:is it? This is just what we're doing for the next little bit.
Speaker 2:So you get less resentful of everything. I find I get more resentful of like the structures in our society now than I do of like my family, but it's a different like.
Speaker 1:it's different, yeah it is different, and I used to hate when people say it doesn't get easier, it's just different. Yeah, but it is that's. That's a fact. Yeah, it's a fact.
Speaker 2:It's easier in some aspects, more difficult in some yeah, just as equally exhausting, still feeling like I don't know what the hell I'm doing no one does and we are apparently we're in the sweet spot with the age that our kids are and I keep telling my husband we have to like heal from the trauma of, like the baby years and everything that did to our marriage and like fix it. And like fix our marriage and be real close before the teen years. Just like explode everything back up again and like fix it. And like fix our marriage and be real close before the teen years. Just like explode everything back up again and like, by the way, if you mute me and create a reel out of that, that'll just look ridiculous of the way that I was just like throwing myself around. I'm very, I'm Italian, I'm very dramatic. There's lots of we just might.
Speaker 1:Okay, we just might, we just might, just for fun, take the idea and run with it. Look at annie, she's lost her mind actually anyways.
Speaker 2:But yeah, like I, I'm always like, oh my god, like, okay, we you know the baby years were hard on on the marriage and then like this is a sweet spot. And then we're gonna get into aging parents and teenagers and like when do we get to like love each other without stress?
Speaker 1:and I think that's why sex is so nice, because it's it's not your space, you're, you're, you're in a different world and like yeah, yeah well, and I also Like I know that's another separate podcast episode, but I do feel as though, very similarly like my husband and I have probably had the hardest year we've ever had this year I can agree.
Speaker 1:But, like, every time we talk about stuff like truly like we have kids around the same age, so we have kids the exact same age as actually six and eight, but like, so, if you think about it, we. I always pin picture like my daughter, because that's really where I struggled the most. 2018 hot mess for me. He had to pick up all of those pieces. Yeah, 2019 was the same. 2020 was was the pandemic. 2021 was the pandemic. 2022, even part of that year was. So that was all survival. And now we're all like kind of getting back to our lives. But then looking at each other, like who are you? We never spend time together because we have been doing nothing but surviving. And now that we're not, it's like, oh my God, is everything going to be OK?
Speaker 1:And like yeah, it will be, but I also think that's very normal and people don't talk about it because you know we're perfect and love each other all the time. No, I don't.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, and I have a friend her youngest just went off to high school and she's like you think that's when you and your husband get to like have all this fun together again. And she's like we are feeling very distant, we have to figure out like how we work again without worrying about balancing schedules and all the kids stuff, like it's just us. And so I think your relationship is always going through different transitions and you're always trying to find your way back to each other. But I do think if you can go away or go to dinner and still laugh and have fun, like that's the hope that I hold on to. And there's times, you know, when you're dealing with like a lot, lot and you try to go to dinner and you're like I'm just not into it. But if most of the time you're going out and you guys are just like sticking your fingers up each other's noses and like having a good time.
Speaker 2:There's some hope there that I think you'll be OK.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I couldn't agree more and I don't know, maybe that's the point of this relationship agree more and I don't know, maybe that's the point of this relationship. Like, actually I watched this TikTok the other night and it was like it was probably the most profound TikTok I've ever watched, but the it was like an older lady and she was like you need to marry the person that will I forget how she said it but you like you need to marry the person that will hold your hand when you watch your parents take their last breath. And I just remember like I know it's making me emotional, but she was like the point is like you don't marry someone for their looks or their money or this or that, because that like ebbs and flows, like your whole relationship, like you have to think about the big, big pieces of your life. And I think kind of what you're saying is true and like maybe we need to let go of the idea of what a relationship is supposed to look like.
Speaker 2:It's it's it's hard. I think maybe that's the phase we're in now is not just when we were younger and had babies we were comparing ourselves to other moms. I think now we're comparing ourselves to other families and marriages and relationships and I know my husband and I have gone through a really really hard year this year too and I look at some couples and like I almost find the village is more important now, um, because it's it's almost easier to justify going and spending that time together when your kids are older. But like I find so many ways to resent the fact that like we don't have the the marriage that other people have, like it's. But I think everybody has their hard moments. You can't everybody does.
Speaker 1:It's just like it was when, when we were postpartum and those moms that were posting those beautiful curated photos were just as unhappy as you are, and maybe not struggling with mental illness, but still struggling, because everybody struggles in that stage and I think of that too, like when I see things and I'm like, well, how come we're not like that, or how come I'm not like that, or whatever. I also try and remember like they have bad times too. They captured this one beautiful moment, but what was behind that moment?
Speaker 1:How many takes did it take to get that moment? How many date nights did they cancel to get that moment?
Speaker 2:Yeah, really the stage of life that we're in is there's a lot of people that I know who are going through crazy things in their marriages and nobody would know by looking at them, right. So I think you just like, as like you were as a new mom like it's hard not to look out but look in and it's funny Dave and I were watching this show one time and it was the psychologist or something and they're like what's the one piece of advice that you can give to people who are like struggling with um, you know the comparison game and just all and feeling disappointed about stuff. And they said lower your expectations. And Dave and I howled and we were like what? But really like lower your expectations. There's, there's only so much that is realistic, right, and obviously have a certain amount of expectations. But like let's account for just like everything that is going on in our world and adjust our expectations to that, and I think there's better chance for happiness in that.
Speaker 1:I could not agree more. Well, I'm going to wrap us up because, like the next thing you know, we're going to be talking about like God knows what. But I just like appreciate you so much because this is this has been a really hard year for me and when you post things and whatever, I'm just like I just I get you, I see you, I hear you, I just I love the realness and I love having other people on, like you, that will just be real because, although, yes, this is the sweet spot, we are in a great space. I love spending time with my kids they are freaking awesome little humans I am still just as exhausted and you know there's other things at play now and life is very bumpy and I'm grateful for people like you that want to talk about, like when we get to sit in the in the ditches.
Speaker 1:You know, when we're on the bumps and then you kind of get stuck in the ditch at the bottom there, yeah, and it's kicking you in the in the ditches you know when we're on the bumps and then you kind of get stuck in the ditch at the bottom there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's kicking you in the face. Yep, I'm grateful for you too, and I think it's because I don't know about you, but in my head I'm still 19. Like it doesn't make sense to me that this is my life, like I look in the mirror and I'm like, ooh, no, I'm older than I feel, um, but yeah, yeah, it's like a reality check all the time.
Speaker 1:That like we are in charge somebody put us in charge, and I don't know who did that, but I would really like them to take my adulting capabilities away, because I'm not sure this is safe yeah, it's chaos.
Speaker 2:It's chaos, but it's a good chaos. Everyone's going through it everyone is. So if you are relating, just remember that you're not alone, never never, never, never, and if you find that, you can talk about it, that's where you find your people leave everybody, please, annie, where can they follow?
Speaker 1:you find you plug your book again, please for the love.
Speaker 2:It's a wonderful book, thank you um annaleeslaottoncom is my website and um, I guess, on Instagram at Annie Lawton underscore.
Speaker 1:Yeah, awesome, yeah Well, thank you so much and thank you, guys for tuning in and we'll talk to you soon. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the honest as a mother podcast. Don't forget to subscribe, rate and review. I'm really looking forward to hearing from you.